youtube.com/watch?v=8A7MMN7Gzw

There's a _lot_ of conservative-ish Texas YouTuber's doing vids about their self-sufficient solar and generator setups... I don't think the left-wing environmentalists really thought this through. They're accidentally promoting self-sufficiency, which is both unobtainable if you're lower income, and quickly teaches you about the pragmatic realities of power production.

Are there any examples of genuinely self-sufficient off-the-grid/homested _vegan_ YouTubers out there?

It's easy to be self-sufficient with animals. But actually getting enough protein and other nutrients without modern tech is impossible without animals in many ecosystems.

Like solar and generators, this feels like a schism between reality and the modern left.

@pete good question. i bet it’s possible if you can grow certain superfoods like goji berries.

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@pox Sure. But hence my "most ecosystems". Looks like growing goji berries in north america is hard.

Raising chickens on the other hand is relatively easy - I personally know quite a few people who do it.

Animals also make small scale food production easier to do for many other reasons, like pest control, fertilizer, etc.

youtube.com/watch?v=CevA8vjCOb

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@pox Same thing with hunting/gun ownership. It's a lot easier to hate on hunters and others who kill animals when you don't have problems feral pigs, rats, mice, etc. eating your crops.

@pete not to mention is way harder to eat healthily without animal products. nearly impossible to do so self-sufficiently. but with farm animals you could eat a perfectly healthy diet that's compatible with a long healthspan and avoid metabolic diseases.

@pox ...and even harder again when you have food preservation/winter to think about too.

@pete @pox
I think it depends on the actual reason of living vegan.

Are you trying to protect animals? If you have your own chickens/cows, this argument is not valid because you won't kill the male chickens/cows (as it happens on commercial farms) for eggs/milk.

Do you think animal fats & proteins are unhealthy? Have fun starving (at least in non tropical climate zones).

But I think any sane person would rather switch to a non vegan diary instead of starving - if it's not too late.

@pete @pox
Maybe my first reason doesn't make sense but there are some people who claim to be vegan but eat eggs because they have their own chickens. Of course, this claim is not entirely true.

@XBT @pox Yes, that's exactly why I said vegan rather than vegetarian. The moment you're willing to eat milk and eggs - and thus keep animals - things get way easier re: sustainability and self-sufficiency.

Re: "instead of starving", the scary thing is people with children. Lots of kids have been badly harmed by vegan diets; growing kids are much more vulnerable to malnutrition than their parents, and vegan diets have much less room for error.

Relevant: qz.com/1622642/making-your-kid

@XBT @pox Of course, on the other end of the scale, I've even known people who describe themselves as semi-vegan and, eg, regularly go hunting. They had no qualms about taking an animals life if their ethical standards were met.

@XBT @pete
how do, like, *own* chickens, man? is that like a NFT?

@pox Exactly, you can also feed them but in reallife they are still mine and I'll also eat all the eggs: pollofeed.com/

@XBT @pox we’re having fun feeding your chickens from a remote beach down in Mexico. Will avoid eating pollo asado today haha

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