It's no wonder Israel is trying to effectively make getting vaccinated mandatory... Anyone with a clue looking at the actual top-level stats would be skeptical.
@Salastil Flu season in Israel typically peaks between December and February, so the top-level stats are consistent with the vaccines making no difference: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/amid-covid-outbreak-no-flu-infections-recorded-in-israel-this-season-654095
Flu season in Canada lasts much longer. But looks like the peak is around the same time as in Israel.
IMO most likely is the vaccines have some benefit, but less than the 95% advertised, and even in Israel they just took too long to be distributed. Also, maybe making things worse in younger w/ active immune systems.
Practically all covid hospitalizations RN in Israel are from non-vaccinated people, and with an overwhelming majority being "young" (40-50). I'm not sure where you get your data from. The latest stats from the Israeli ministry of health shows 99%, 98%, 95% reduction in death, serious illness, infection (correspondingly) for those vaccinated + 2 weeks vs. those not.
There's not a single literate person in Israel that doesn't admit it's a slam dunk.
"Practically all covid hospitalizations RN in Israel are from non-vaccinated people"
Even the official Israeli studies on that don't make that claim: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765?query=featured_home
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1364706944309628929/photo/1
That's a significant reduction. But certainly not "practically all" levels of protection. In particular, as I said, it's quite clear that the long delays involved make the reduction less than hoped.
Also, people sure do seem to be catching it while getting vaccinated.
@pox @Salastil Very common for non-randomized medical studies like that to turn out to have biases. So seeing Israel's overall results to not be significantly better than other countries - even with enormously higher levels of vaccination - is obviously not confidence inspiring.
If you don't understand that, meh, not worth having a conversation.
@pete @Salastil Yea the vaccine is only 99% effective in preventing death. Not 100%. Clearly a terrible vaccine.
Listen to the radio interviews with the heads of covid wards in Israeli hospitals. They say what I’m saying. It’s a disease of unvaccinated people now. They (the doctors) are the ones on the ground who can tell you the story weeks before the science gets published, and the recent studies confirm what they’ve been saying. 50x reduction in serious illness is better that any flu shot.
@CalebCarr @pete @Salastil
I was talking about the pfizer vaccine, which is the only one currently being administered in Israel, and so the only one relevant to the above discussion.
Your lowest point at the debate: “it’s very common for studies like this to have biases” without pointing at a single source of actual bias.
That’s basically saying science is often wrong so let’s disregard this research with N=600k because you have a gut hunch those israelis must have fucked it up. And btw this is only one study - there’s they maccabi one that shows similar results.
Lowest form of argument is just to spread FUD.
